Jacobs - The Hobyahs continued - Keeping the Public in Public Domain

There is a certain degree of follow-up needed on The Hobyahs.  

I was a bit rushed on posting June Barnes-Rowley and Marilyn Kinsella's information about the Hobyahs.  

Marilyn was a bit late in responding and said what I posted from her website deserves a bit more credit to January Kiefer as they used to perform it in tandem for several years.  



As Marilyn described the story:

Very powerful....FUN...story to tell. When I read one of the original stories

I thought - yeesh! 

But, January thought of the humor. Thanks for asking.

June, of necessity, had to be contacted too close to my posting it.  She responded:

A fantastic blog, Lois. You’ve broadened my knowledge of *The Hobyahs *and you’ve reminded me of one of the things I loved most about the traditional tales – the stories behind/around the tales. Papa Joe does a great rendition of *Hobyahs*. I’m honoured that you have included my videoed telling of the story – and even enhanced it. :)

As for different versions of the story, I think the version in the Victorian Second Grade Reader is excellent for young children. They identify with Little Dog Dingo who, like them, is vulnerable in the power of adults and unable to articulate why he is behaving the way he is. The animal character provides just enough distance whereas if the character were a child the identification would be much stronger, and therefore extremely unsettling.

Because the children have empathy for Little Dog Dingo, they feel the suspense of wondering whether he will survive. They share his frustration at not being able to make himself understood. They rejoice when he is finally taken seriously by his significant adult and, as a result, saves the day. At the end of the story, when the terror is over, the child’s world is restored to harmony – Little Dog Dingo is put back together and the Hobyahs are no more.

I believe Bruno Bettleheim said something along the lines of a scary story being a safe place for children to work through their fears. I think*Hobyahs* is a good example of that.

Of course, young children in the second grade in Australia ‘back in the day’ were tough kids and most had a connection to the land where life is brutal so, although they would be concerned for Little Dog Dingo, they wouldn’t necessarily fall over in a swoon on reading the story as today’s shielded children might.

As for the origins of the story, I’m inclined to think they are more likely to be Scottish than Australian. For one thing, when Jacobs was working on *More English Fairy Tales*, he was living in the United Kingdom.

The fact that he doesn’t identify which Perth he is talking about suggests he assumes the reader will know he is talking about the only Perth in the UK. If he’d been talking about the Australian Perth from his base in the UK, he would probably have identified it as Perth, Australia.

Also, when the Victorian Readers were compiled Australia was still joined at the hip to Britain and, although there was some concern to have stories that reflected Australia, most of the stories provided to schoolchildren were sourced from the UK. I think *The Hobyahs* is unattributed in the Victorian Reader but it is possible it was sourced from Jacobs’ publication then reworked.

And as for ‘swag of yarns’, I’m afraid it is no more. Yes, priorities and time. But it is nice to know it is missed.

Nice talkin' to ya, Lois. 

JB :)

From time to time I mention the email list, Storytell, hosted by the National Storytelling Network.  Of course spooky stories and their options  are a popular topic in October, so I did a "heads up" about this blog discussing The Hobyahs.  Two storytellers discussed their experiences with it.  (Blogger took my pasting their comments plus those of June and Marilyn and made some strange formatting.  My apologies.)

MaryGrace Walrath said:

When I tell "Hobyahs" I use "exaggerated" facial reactions as I describe how the Hobyahs look.

I do the same thing every time I say, "Poor Little Dog Turpy".

I end the story with "The hunter took the little girl to the remains of the house where she used to live. They gathered Little Dog Turpy's body parts and took them to a veterinarian and, because I like dogs, the vet sewed Little Dog Turpy back together as good as new."

While discussing it a bit further, she told me about a workshop she attended ages ago on telling spooky stories that advised, for young children, letting out a giggle and a smile to let the children know it really wasn't as spooky as it might seem.

Additionally fellow Missourian, (but she stayed, while I moved to Michigan), Mary Garrett said on Storytell:

That was one of the first stories I learned to tell, in a workshop with Lynn Rubright.   

Then I told it to children at the pre-school, who were not scared because I'm just not scary.  

I've seen others tell it successfully, softening with humor, "tasted like chicken," and finding a 

happy ending in the child's real parents coming to the rescue at the end.  I've since learned other 

stories I like better, but it is a classic.

That safe ending is key. Jackie Torrence's line was often, "and no one ever saw that . . . . again. And that's the end of that."

Mary was told afterwards she probably told it with a smile and she agreed!
May you keep a smile on your face with or without those Hobyahs.

******************************** 

Jacobs - The Hobyahs - Keeping the Public in Public Domain

I've a large repertoire of scary stories because I enjoy them and have had years to tell them, but today's story has always been too creepy for me to tell.  I consider Papa Joe Gaudet both a friend and mentor, so I wasn't surprised to see a video where he did a great storytelling, but it was this story.  Still definitely creepy and I'll show it after the story in print.  I'll also include its Australian connection even though Joseph Jacobs put it in his anthology, More English Fairy Tales.  I then will give a variety of responses and ways of handling it.  The story has had many people adapt it and I'll discuss that, too, but first ... The Hobyahs.

Here's Papa Joe's telling with fellow storyteller, Simon Brooks, playing on the bodhran.

Simon also did a second version of the story where there is only the audio and a picture of the two of them.  On that second video Simon says:

This is a recording for ADULTS. This is NOT something you would play to young children. Papa Joe Gaudet wanted to record a story with drums, and asked me to work with him on the old tale called The Hobyahs. Papa Joe did the lion's share with the story, with minor suggestions and edits from myself. I play a Alfonso daBlonde bodhran, and join in with my voice in places. We recorded it on a handheld Zoom voice recorder in my front room, and frightened my dog Moe in the telling. Enjoy it - if you can!

Jacobs grew up in Australia and posted the story first in the Journal of American Folklore, citing as his source a Mr. S.V. Proudfit of Perth.  The muddying of things start because Jacobs omits whether that was Perth, Scotland or Perth, Australia.  There's additional reason to think it's Australia from colonial days because Aussie storytellers point to a version found in the Victorian Readers, a series of school readers produced between 1927 and 1930 for school children in the state of Victoria and used (with revisions) until the 1950s.

Two Aussie storytelling friends who are also writers, Ellen Frances Burdett and June Barnes-Rowley, long ago began to make me wonder about how the story could appear in a school reader.  (I learned in researching this it was the Second Reader and was the curriculum for seven year olds!) Ellen sent me scans of that version of the story.  One page is a bit blurry, but I think it's still clear enough to follow.

I mentioned June Barnes-Rowley, who nowadays is a novelist in addition to her storytelling, but I remember her founding Swag of Yarns (I bought many issues of it years ago), Australia's National Storytelling Magazine.  In the spring of 1999, June published an Australian version, explaining the dog is named Dingo, but it barks while actual dingoes howl.  Here's June telling her version of The Hobyahs and it's definitely set in Australia.

If you notice, the Victorian Reader and June's version leave out the little girl and also has the dog put back together.  This interests me because of what I read in Michelle De Stefani, Ph.D.'s paper on "Taming the Hobyahs" (written for Monash University, in Victoria's major city of Melbourne).  She mentions its roots include a cautionary element in colonial tales of errant children or lost babes in the bush:

children who become, through the process of storytelling, didactic exemplars of the danger and precariousnessof growing up and living in the wilds of a ‘savage’ island outpost. Among the host ofmythical creatures the child could encounter within the hostile landscape of theAustralian bush, none could be more terrifying than a horde of Hobyahs. To appreciatethe true terror of Hobyahs – as well as their close ties to Australian childhood and to fairy-tale traditions – one must acknowledge their history in print as well as their adaptations and re-visions in the twentieth century.

There's more in her paper, which progresses all the way through to an Australian film, Celia, which could be called a modern version of the story.  Her paper's quite interesting, tracking the tale from its "ori-genesis", but it doesn't take us to the telling or revision of this story.

Here in the U.S. Marilyn Kinsella posted the way she tells the story.  She makes them sound slightly humorous looking, but she reminds us:

Now, there are two things you need to know about the Hobyahs. Thing number one: Hobyahs hate the light. Thing number two: Hobyahs can't stand dogs! You remember that.

After that she involves the audience, getting them to join in on the Hobyah's chant.  She does include the little girl, but doesn't get the dog put back together, using essentially the version Jacobs wrote.  At the end she concludes with something all versions seem to point out "That's why to this day, you never see nor hear about those Hobyahs...unless, of course, you listen to this story."

Thinking about whether or not the girl is in the story -- she's omitted from the Victorian Reader -- is important.  Omitting her lets young listeners avoid identifying with the old woman and the old man.

I began looking on the internet to find even more and found Barbara Ruth Brown Paciotti's blog, where she says she first heard the story when she was "very, very young" from her grandmother and used to beg to hear it repeatedly.  As an adult she compared her version and how it differed from what was surely Jacobs.  The dog's tail makes a "wiggle-waggle" whenever it's mentioned; the feet similarly "pitter-patter", and Turpie "bark, bark, barks."  There's no little girl and the old man puts the dog back together.  It's interesting how her gentle version has the dog merely chasing the Hobyahs away, concluding "but the Hobyahs were too afraid of little dog Turpie and they never came out of the forest again, so the little old man and the little old woman and little dog Turpie lived happily ever after."

Another version, in Public Domain, is very similar to the Victorian Reader, from Fanny E. Coe's The Book of Stories for the Storyteller the tale is re-told by Carolyn Sherwin Bailey, who certainly knew how to tell to young audiences.  It contains the note that "This story is suitable for children age 6 to 8 approx."  No girl, Turpie is put back together by the old man to rescue the old woman, and concludes "And that is why there are not any Hobyahs now."

Leila Berg has a book called Little Dog Turpie with humorous illustrations by George Him.  A blog called What's the Story, Morning Glory, with permission from the author and artist, shows those copyrighted illustrations and Berg says, "It was George's idea to make Dog Turpie into a toy-type figure, so that his different pieces didn't have to be brutally chopped off, but were just taken apart." Again it also omits the girl and concludes with "And that's why there are no Hobyahs today, not one."

Several wrote about how hearing the story as a child "seriously creeped them out", giving years of nightmares. 

• Back in Australia, Inga Clendinnen writes in The Age newspaper her own looking again at that Victorian Reader doubting the Gemanic roots someone told her the story had and putting down the way the Old Man "remained cosily hidden while the house-pulling-down and the kidnapping were going on, repented his earlier actions and reassembled the little dog, having frugally kept the bits", and how the Old Woman and the dog return to him.  Her most important doubt, however, is "But we didn't and we don't believe it. There were too many hobyahs. How could one little dog possibly eat them all up? At best he might have bitten one or two and then made a run for it. So they must be still out there in the bush."  She goes on to say "You don't believe me? Try whispering "Hobyahs!" to anyone over 40 when you're out in the bush, when the dusk comes creeping from the gullies, between the grey gums. Then watch them run."
• Engrams in the Cloud says "When I was very young my mother would read stories to us, some of which caused me and my younger brother to have nightmares. The story of the Hobyahs was one such story." (Lois: The dog is put back together and there's no little girl.)
• Eliza Leigh warns, before giving the Jacobs version from The Junior Classics set,
  

  Seriously. This gave me the heebie jeebies for years.
  **WARNING** Visciousness to poor dog Turpie and mean-a** farmer within. Actually, it never says he’s a farmer, I’m just assuming, it just says old man. Wonder where they got a little girl. . . 

A mixture of positive and negative reactions I enjoyed came from a children's librarian, Eva M., tells in her Book Addiction blog about an aggravating neighbor dog named Teddy who reminded her enough of Turpie that she confessed:

  "That little dog Teddy barks so that I can neither sleep nor slumber, and if I live 'til morning, I'm going to cut off little dog Teddy's head."

This despite the fact that 1. I consider myself an animal fan, being the proud companion of a passel of hens and a tangle of rats and one scrofulous hamster 2. it's not Teddy but his human who deserves my ire and 3. little dog Turpie remains a shining example of selfless, courageous heroism to me.

She goes on, however to tell of how she "once saved Teddy's life sort of/maybe" (LoiS: read it!) and, when her husband asked why she saved him, she replied:

"Well, think what might get us if it weren't for Teddy, " I answer. "The Hobyahs might be out there right now, waiting to tear down our hemp stalks."

But I still can't help sympathizing with the old man, just the tiniest little bit.

After Eva's own post there are some comments including an Australian who remembers back to 1947 and how it made an impression on a 7 year old.  (Lois: bold type and underlining is mine.) and this final comment from a Czech storyteller and her own reaction to telling it.

 I watched the movie Celia long, long ago and recently I thought about a story to "make mood" before summer camp night game, so I tried to find anything about that children's story. Searching was little hard, because I haven't remember neither the name of the movie, neither the name of the story, just bits, so I searched for hobiahs, hobias, hobiars etc. before I somehow found it.
I read some versions, most of them (as you say) bowdlerized (I had to find out what that term means) and found the original one absolutely fit to the purpose.
Some children were so scared, but they all enjoed the story and made me read it once more! And they don't even know english well, the story is not translated into Czech. Nice to see thirteen years old macho, who during the day have only contemption for everything, eyes full of primal fear of creep creep creeping in the night!
I tried to find something more about how the hobyahs look like before I found out that everyone has his/her own hobyahs, that imagination makes them so creepy...
While searching for it, I found this page and it makes me really happy, your story is so heart-warming :) Yeah, everyone has some Teddy the dog, that one wants to be silent and is willing to "cut his head off", but when tough time comes, is nice that your humanity prevails.
You made my day better, thank you!
Z. Švajda, Czech Republic.

O.k., if you're considering telling it, I found June Rowley has a blog, Oral Storytelling, and she gives this:

Note to storytellers: Don’t make the mistake of portraying the hobyahs as loud and fierce during the refrain; Hobyah. Hobyah. Hobyah. Pull down the hut, eat up the little old man, and carry off the little old woman.
The hobyahs are planning an ambush and their intended victims are sleeping. Sombre and sinister (or ‘sepulchral monotone’ as S. V. Proudfit puts it) is appropriate here rather than loud and fierce.
The moment for the hobyahs to be loud and fierce is when they are trying to intimidate the woman in the bag – at this point they are in a heightened state, excited about the victory of capture and anticipating the meal ahead.

Point taken.  You will notice it followed both in her own video and that by Papa Joe.

So where does this leave me?  Hmmm.  Maybe it's worth looking at one more version.  Robert San Soucie, who is no stranger to spooky storytelling having produced many anthologies of such stories, dared to do a picture book version.  I must admit I loved his additional poetic comments that appear on clouds facing the main part of the story.  He definitely has the little girl.  What I found most interesting was my reaction to the Old Man and Old Woman, who raise the orphan girl, have five dogs.  One by one each dog, Turpie, Topie, Tippy, Tarry, and Teeny, are beaten and chased off into the woods for sounding the alarm.  The elderly couple are eaten for their failure to listen to their dogs, while the girl is carried off and cries in the bag.  It makes perfect sense the dogs, who were chased into the same woods, hear and rescue her.  (Lois: Wonder what the Australian newspaper writer would think of five dogs finishing off all the Hobyahs?)  The happy ending with the little girl and the dogs is appropriate to the picture book audience level.

O.k. I find myself, as always, thinking about my audience.  San Soucie has revealed to me how I personally am very uncomfortable with dismembering the dog.  One version made a point of saying it uses magic to put the dog together because it was available then.  Doesn't matter to me.  Unless I want to really be creepy, the idea of multiple dogs works for me and I also believe the distance in the story by eliminating a child works against the very thing storytelling does best -- identify with the main character and form a picture in your mind (movies miss that by substituting a picture).  When would I want to be "really creepy" and give the Jacobs version?  That comment from the Czech Republic says there are indeed audiences needing it, those adolescent listeners with a "Can't scare me!" attitude deserve the story to have "primal fear of creep creep creeping in the night!"

Today's posting of multiple versions and reactions and considering how it might be told has gone on long enough.  I'm omitting the usual "fine print" listing other places to find stories.  It usually is attached to my Keeping the Public in Public Domain segments.  If you want to find more, I heartily recommend my colleagues listed there.

4 1/2 Factors in Summer Storytelling

If ever there was a summer when heat affected storytelling, this has been it.  Oh I know Michigan's temperatures are cooler than most of the U.S., but it has been more persistent than usual and we're not used to it.  I grew up in St. Louis -- that's Missouri (or Misery as I am sometimes teased), not Michigan, a town I only discovered after settling here.  Summer was my favorite time of year, after all it meant school was out.  It was common there to say "It's not the heat, it's the humidity."  Be it the humidity, the dew point, the heat index, storytellers ignore it at their audience's and their own peril.


Four and a half main factors must be considered in summer storytelling.

1. A lot of summer storytelling is at festivals.  It's a great way for festival goers to relax and cool down even if the festival isn't specifically a storytelling festival.  Yes, it's important to have a sound system and avoid competing noise if a story is to be heard since outdoor areas don't help the voice travel as far, but many venue planners overlook the importance of shade.  Remember this is a time for attendees to sit back and relax.  Also the teller may enjoy a spotlight onstage, but the sun is not going to encourage the teller in a similar way to keep going.
2. A breeze is an added and, sometimes, needed benefit.  One un-air-conditioned library's fan made all the difference.  The audience were absolute angels and this teller eventually realized what was helping them and moved over to share in the welcome blast of air. (It was obviously fairly quiet, but even a noisy fan can be talked over and, whether indoors or out, moving air is helpful.)
3. Hydration.  You know you should do it.  You know the beverages that work against it.  Bring your own to be sure, but hope the venue offers it...for both you and the audience.
4. Clothing can make a difference, too.  When possible it should be light and, if in the sun, still covering.  (I don't do well with sunscreen chemicals unfortunately.)

Clothing deserves extra attention.  

Historical garb is its own set of adjustments.  Historical and ethnic storytellers must investigate how the people they represent handled severe heat .  This summer I've told as myself for summer reading programs and elsewhere, plus wearing The Pride of Scotland tartan at our Highland Games as I'm a member of Clan Stirling, and in two types of historical outfits, the Civil War era and in a World War I uniform.  Sometimes I've done other ethnic storytelling programs, but not this summer although hot lands like India wear blessedly light weight, loose flowing outfits and my friends who tell African tales similarly dress for the weather.  Some summers I've been a Hired Girl or a One-Room Schoolteacher and definitely chose outfits those women would have worn in summer.
 

This past week I did my first "Hello Girls " public program about the bilingual phone operators of World War I.  I knew the uniform was a must, but at first didn't know they had both winter and summer uniforms.  Their uniforms were modeled after the Army nurse and they cost $300 to $500 (that's more than $4300 to over $7200 in today's money).  The army didn't provide it, the women either made it themselves, had it made by a local dressmaker, or by the big east coast department store tailors.  That was a sizeable donation on the part of the women and it's no wonder the town of Emmett, Idaho threw a benefit for Anne Campbell Atkinson.  Even at that, the women rejected part of the uniform that didn't show . . . the woolen underwear and black sateen bloomers.  I'm so glad they did!  I'll not need to show those bloomers.

There are many photos of the operators at their World War I switchboards with their jackets off.  While waiting to enter with a helmet and gas mask on, I wondered if I would need to do that for the program.  Fortunately there was air conditioning and, once I made my entrance in protective gear, I was able to handle the summer weight uniform.  My initial uniform is definitely winter weight.  The jacket started its life as a teenage Civil War reenactor's "sack coat."  I hunted until I found matching navy wool for the skirt, belt, and pockets.

Gentlemen, be you Civil War reenactors or members of a Scottish pipe and drum band, I would definitely be looking for uniform options beyond the dark heavy woolen jacket.  Thanks heavens for the kilt in summer, eh?  At the Highland Games I noticed, more than in the past, some bands had short sleeved uniform shirts to replace the traditional jacket.  As for Civil War ladies, there was an incredible number of layers.  I know I don't have all of them, certainly not a corset since I don't travel with a "fainting couch" nor smelling salts.  Still I do enjoy explaining about the cotton boycott (so, gentlemen, avert your eyes while I show the ladies my shorter pantaloons!)  All the rest, I can assure you is cool muslin.  Besides all those lacy slips, that enormous hoop guarantees people stand a bit apart from each other and ventilation is even better than a kilt, just stay away from campfires.  Fortunately hand fans are very appropriate for any woman, especially for historical storytelling.  (Back to the second factor, breezes, some performers carry their own small electric fans.  I've always believed in seeing to the comfort of my audience first, but let's face it, stages are elevated and heat rises.

Now about that 1/2 heat factor I promised.  None of us are getting any younger and experts say older people are more subject to heat stress than the young.  If you do overheat, get in the shade or a cooler area, maybe even air conditioning, sit down and drink some cool water (ice water isn't as easily absorbed).  Put some of it on your loosened clothing and wrists to further cool down.  If somebody wants to give you ice, use it on your skin or clothing.  I presume your location won't let you take a cool shower or bath.  Back when we were talking about the heat index -- remember it's higher in the sun -- or the humidity, if it's over 60%, your sweat isn't going to do as good a job cooling you.  If this doesn't give you relief in 15 minutes, you need emergency medical help as heat exhaustion can easily move on to the more serious heat stroke.  Even if you do avoid heat stroke, experiencing heat exhaustion means you should probably take about a week of extra caution as you will be more sensitive to the heat.  I remember seeing the late Kathryn Tucker Windham fading onstage in a hot tent at the Michigan Storytellers Festival one year.  Fortunately another storyteller, our emcee, Papa Joe, recognized what was happening and acted quickly.

If you have other suggestions for this topic, by all means let me know.  My email is at the top of this blog, I'm on Facebook, too, so if you can't get through here, those are two fairly easy ways to reach me . . . heaven knows the spammers certainly can.  Hot or cold, storytellers need to be reachable.  There's also my website, http://www.LoiS-sez.com , which needs my attention on its Historical page now that my Hello Girl program is available.  I think next week I'll offer a Keeping the Public in Public Domain story looking at how blessed we are if we survive heat without a forest fire.  John James Audubon, yes, that Audubon, told a great first-person story about surviving one.

Until then, do whatever you can and try to KEEP COOL!

Mooney - Origin of Disease and Medicine - Keeping the Public in Public Domain

The Rod of Asclepius

It's confession time here (no relation to Lent!).  Blogger lets me work ahead and recently I knew I was going to be on the road for a while so I took advantage of the Chinese New Year to work through February 13.  Little did I know I'd get sick while away and need every bit of that time.  Back when I still worked as a librarian full-time (I still sub. occasionally), I asked my mentor, Papa Joe, what storytellers did when they got sick.  He said, correctly, there is no such thing as sick leave.  Fortunately I fulfilled the storytelling needed right before getting sick and had no gigs scheduled while I've worked to get well.

Thinking about being sick reminded me of a great little tale collected by James Mooney in his Myths of the Cherokee.  Not only did a Cherokee storytelling friend once verify the accuracy of the book by saying it didn't even make the elders snicker much -- as in their respecting its getting the material right! -- but the versions often tell well exactly as Mooney wrote it.  Today's story is wonderfully tellable.

(By the way, I'm no snake lover, but after the story there's a bonus about the Rod of Asclepius and the Caduceus.)

Aren't you glad the Plants were friendly?  If you doubt the truth of the story, remember even something as basic as Aspirin goes back to Plants.  As Wikipedia notes: Plant extracts, including willow bark and spiraea, of which salicylic acid was the active constituent, had been known to help alleviate headaches, pains, and fevers since antiquity. The father of modern medicine, Hippocrates (circa 460 – 377 BC), left historical records describing the use of powder made from the bark and leaves of the willow tree to help these symptoms.

Of course there's more to the story and if you're curious, go to the Wikipedia link and read "Discovery of the Mechanism", "History", and "Trademark" for some interesting background before popping your next pill.

The Caduceus

I also promised a "bonus" bit of story about the Rod of Asclepius and the Caduceus.  While I would have preferred a Cherokee symbol appropriate to today's story, it was easier to look among more common medical logos.  The Caduceus is often thought of in the U.S. as that logo, but I discovered it's an incorrect usage.  The symbol goes back to both Egyptian and Greek mythology and was incorrectly linked to medicine by the U.S. Army Medical Corps.  The Rod of Asclepius, which I showed at the start of today's article, has only one snake and no wings and is the correct medical symbol complete with a far more interesting, if too little known, Greek myth. 

Wikipedia may have become the encyclopedia of our online lives, but while looking for the Rod of Asclepius, I was delighted to come across Symbolreader, a blog written anonymously by someone with a background in both English and Psychology, who shares a love of symbols and says its "where I can turn my sight inwards and marvel at the universal unconscious patterns that are shaping the lives of our souls."  Interesting stories are all around us in the symbols we use.

Hope you're not needing to fight off the ills plotted in Mooney, but if you are, thank goodness for the Plant World and its medicines.

UPDATE (April 2021):  The spiraea or spirea (both spellings are used) is a common garden bush.  For gardeners, a resource contacted me to talk about How to Grow and Care for Spirea, from Happy DIY Home, which uses "master gardeners" to advise on gardening.  The site also includes a wide amount of information on Home Improvement and Home Decor.  The site founder, Jen Stark, was the one who contacted me.  I can appreciate her starting the business after seeking "the information we wish we had when we started remodeling our 100-year old home, a 4,500 sf Victorian house."  The site says it pays "particular attention to content curation... We make sure each piece of content is:

• Tried-and-tested, Research-Backed
• Practical and Easy to follow
• Written only by home improvement experts with significant personal and/or professional experience. Our team includes master gardeners, interior designers, professional contractors / handyman, and more

My past with Spirea has been, like most bushes, fairly trouble free, but my gardening sometimes leaves me worrying that plants quake in fear when they see me coming.  I found the Happy DIY Home site an encouraging resource worth my adding in an Update.  While this article was mainly related to medicinal botany and its Native American roots, I appreciate the way we still have so much to learn from those very Native American roots as well as other historical forms of botanical pharmacology.  Wish we had plants to help us through the current pandemic.

Stay well and enjoy the many wonderful stories found in the Public Domain!
******************
This is part of a series of postings of stories under the category, "Keeping the Public in Public Domain."  The idea behind Public Domain was to preserve our cultural heritage after the authors and their immediate heirs were compensated.  I feel strongly current copyright law delays this intent on works of the 20th century.  My own library of folklore includes so many books within the Public Domain I decided to share stories from them.  I hope you enjoy discovering new stories.  

At the same time, my own involvement in storytelling regularly creates projects requiring research as part of my sharing stories with an audience.  Whenever that research needs to be shown here, the publishing of Public Domain stories will not occur that week.  This is a return to my regular posting of a research project here.  (Don't worry, this isn't dry research, my research is always geared towards future storytelling to an audience.)  Response has convinced me that "Keeping the Public in Public Domain" should continue along with my other postings as often as I can manage it.    

There are many online resources for Public Domain stories, none for folklore is as ambitious as fellow storyteller, Yoel Perez's database, Yashpeh, the International Folktales Collection.  I recommended it earlier and want to continue to do so.  He has just loaded Stith Thompson's Motif Index into his server as a database so one can search the whole 6 volumes for whatever word or expression he likes by pressing one key. http://folkmasa.org/motiv/motif.htm

He also loaded to his server the doctorate thesis of Prof. Dov Noy (Neunan) "Motif-index of Talmudic-Midrahic literature" Indiana University, 1954, as a PDF file.

http://folkmasa.org/motiv/NOY_%20Dov_%20Motif-Index_of_Talmudic-Midrashic_Literature.pdf

in the hope that some of you would make use of it.

You can see why that is a site I recommend to you.

Have fun discovering even more stories!

The Difficult Donald O'Neary

Some bloggers advocate taking controversial stands to generate traffic on a blog.  Not really my style.  Storytellers want to take audiences on a mental journey.  People mentally arguing with you while you tell your story spoils the journey.  That bit of argument happens to me in the classic Irish tale of Hudden and Dudden and Donald O'Neary.  It was a revelation a few years ago to find it told in bouncing good humor by another storyteller.  As a result when St. Patrick's Day neared and I found myself reviewing Irish stories, out popped Donald from the story sack, but he definitely was arguing with me!

I use Blogger to post my weekly blog, but wish it didn't stick comments in a link at the end of an article along with labels.  Even at that, it just lists the number of comments!  It's entirely too easy to skip clicking on those comments or not even realize you can make a comment.  (To avoid spam, commenters also have to jump a few hurdles, making it more bother than many wish to pursue.)

This is why I decided to bring my puzzlement about the story to the email list, Storytell, an excellent international resource for storytellers. Their comments build upon the 4 comments already added below the story.  Click that link, it will take you to them, then you can read the following additional comments followed by my own conclusions.

First I'd like to show those earlier commenters and storytelling friends.  They deserve mention and I also hope you'll click on their internet information (typical storytellers, there's often more than one place, but I tried to choose the most used location and photo) : 

Papa Joe Gaudet

Papa Joe Gaudet has a mini photo there, but he deserves the same treatment here as other commenters.

Richard Martin

You'll notice two Richards with very similar names. Richard Martin is commonly called Richard in Germany.  He's British and sometimes in Italy, but wherever he may be, he and these others are storytelling ambassadors.

Richard Marsh

Similarly Richard Marsh is often called Richard in Ireland, which he generally is, offering wonderful Legendary Tours of Ireland, but he's originally from here in Michigan and part of the year he switches to the Basque region of Spain documenting the Irish connection.

Andy Evans (listed in the earlier comments as Andy in Germany)

I noticed those four comments began to get into Ireland's historical/political differences, but somehow still left me sorting out my feelings and needing to consider the story further.  That's when I turned to Storytell. 

Nick Smith

entered the discussion saying: I have the same problem with the story that you
mentioned, in that the farmer isn't really deserving of such a severe fate.
Hudden and Dudden are the bad guys. If Donald had tricked the farmer in
a less drastic way, he'd have kept my sympathy. Or, if the farmer had in
some way harmed Donald in the past.
Still, we're set up for it by the way Donald tricks the innkeeper. Donald
isn't such a nice man, and is shown as targeting innocent bystanders as well
as those who wrong him.
--Nick Smith
***
I quickly replied: Ah, yes! I had even overlooked the innkeeper.
LoiS(tory's problems grow)
***
Richard Martin started out quoting Nick and pointing to his earlier comment:
If Donald had tricked the farmer in a less drastic way, he'd have kept my
sympathy. Or, if the farmer had in some way harmed Donald in the past.
Still, we're set up for it by the way Donald tricks the innkeeper. Donald
isn't such a nice man, and is shown as targeting innocent bystanders as well
as those who wrong him.
I'll copy here the comment I just left on Lois's blog:

I agree with Papa Joe's comment. We should not shy away from the stereotypical nature of a folk tale, often showing those stereotypes against the backdrop of a pretty vicious society. If it were not so vicious, why would we respond to Donald's triumphing against the odds?

For me, the names are the key pointer. I have not told the tale for over a decade. But when I did, I always introduced it as tale reflecting the forcible expropriation of much of the land by successive English colonising settlement. As names, Hudden and Dudden could not be more English, whereas O'Neary is as Irish as you can get. Against that background, Donald has long been the victim and his trickery is an act of independence against all the colonial elite, including the other farmer and the landlord.

***

That's the historical/political differences I mentioned made me begin to notice some of the story's appeal.

***

Nick replied: 

Okay, but what nationality were the Innkeeper and the other farmer? I can certainly see this tale being a fable about getting revenge on the English, but in the versions I’ve read and heard, the Innkeeper might be English, but the other farmer is “sounds” Irish. Thus, Donald comes across as uncaring at best.
I’m not saying that it’s a bad story, but I am saying that’s one of the reasons I don’t tell it.
***

At this point

Kimberley King

added an American parallel: 

I have read a variant of this story which comes out of the slave tradition in the US - I think it's in Virginia Hamilton's "The People Could Fly."

I think it's simple - to an oppressed people, getting the best of the oppressor in a story is very, very satisfying - and killing them off is best of all. There's a good deal of hostility lurking under a veil of humor. In the other version, it's a grandmother who is killed.....

***
She then continued with a contrasting thought:
on the other hand, traditional stories have a LOT of violent death, sometimes justified, sometimes not. It didn't bother me as a kid. I think that fairy tale death is kind of like cartoon death - think Roadrunner and Coyote - it is not the same as real, actual death....
***
Nick responded:

Sure, but try reversing the nationalities or positions, and see what the story is like. If there’s an “unjust” body count, the story just loses something, in my opinion.

In that vein, here’s a link to Tom Smith’s song of the Roadrunner cartoons, from Wily Coyote’s viewpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvi00nuctK4
***
Richard Martin pointed out to Nick's "but in the versions I’ve read and heard, the Innkeeper might be English, but the other farmer is “sounds” Irish. ":

Don't forget that the Protestant Ascendency was not simply a matter of a few English landowners. A lot of more ordinary members of society were brought in and so it would not have been at all unusual for there to be a sense of resentment between Donald and others around him, even those whose ancestors had been living there several generations.

This page points to that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Ascendancy

Nonetheless, this discussion points to the importance of only telling a tale you're comfortable with.

***

from Nick:

Very much agreed, Richard. That IS a major reason why I don’t tell the story myself, but it got me to thinking about other Irish trickster stories, some of which I do tell.
My favorite Irish trickster story involves a lot of stealing, both from other thieves and from royalty [who at least count as honorary thieves, I suppose], but no bloodshed of innocent bystanders. I think that’s what I was responding to in the Donald O’Neary story. It’s sort of a “No innocent bystanders were killed by the protagonist in this story” kind of rule.

I hadn’t thought of the other farmer in terms of the Ascendancy at all. Unless I missed something, there are no clues to that effect in the story.
I can easily believe the hard feelings lasting for generations, though.

***

Andy Evans then said:
I left a comment over on the LoiS blog, but the conversation seems to have moved here... I found the same sort of problem with several stories while I was trying to get my basic se together, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who feely this way. When I looked for a Roma story I couldn't find one I was happy with so I build a new one based on the ideas in the stories I found.

On the LoiS Blog, Richard Martin made the point about the political undertones, which make sense. In this context, if I was to tell the story, I'd probably have Donald going to the constable upon finding the cow dead, and getting a clip around the ear for his trouble. The Constable would then sway out of the bar drunk and be hoodwinked into getting into the bag, and subsequently escape from the bag, or be carried off downstream after the two farmers dump him in the river.

I'd probably also have the two farmers carried off at the end and finish by saing something like "and they came ashore far away" so we don't have any deaths.

I appreciate that I'm new to this and I may be committing some kind or heresy by changing the story in this way, ut that seems to get around the worst of the stories. Perhaps the originals were simply written for a more robust time...
***
from Nick:
Not heresy. You have to tell the story in a way that you are willing to tell.
For instance, I like your constable idea, but I don't know if I'd save the
lives of Hudden and Dudden. They're not "innocent bystanders," but had
willfully tried to murder Donald. If I was telling it to children in a
setting where violence should be avoided, then maybe they would get off the
hook.
***
It's time for me to say:
Thank you to all who have considered the problems raised by this story since it was considered a classic Irish tale.  An update here on the story seemed worthwhile.

My own thoughts on this after our discussion tends to echo the reservations Nick mentions, especially telling a story only if I am happy with bringing it to an audience.  That is one of those storytelling principles I give beginning storytellers, because it can make a difference in your presentation.  A story you love is sure to have a higher level of enthusiasm.   On the other hand, it is a valuable look at both why storytellers might not choose a story AND also is a look at how this may tell us something about Irish cultural history and difficulties. IF a class or even other audience was open to looking at such problems, then it's an excellent choice.

In summary, Donald et al is a good example of story selection principles.  For myself, I would pass on it unless the problems of Ireland could be a part of whatever program I was presenting.

I hope you enjoyed this peek into the considerations a storyteller makes when choosing a story.


LoiS(torytell guest authors, I thank you for your thoughtful responses)